If At First You Don’t Succeed…Punt?!

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Digg me

Remember the group of ambulance chasers who followed California’s play with a class action law suit of their own just days after Jerry Brown made his bold attempt to topple what he called a “gigantic pyramid scheme”?

We all know by now how successful California was in shutting YTB down.

In June, the court ruled that the groups initial class action “failed to provide sufficient factual allegations” concerning those who were not Illinois residents. The group has re-filed once again and “corrected their deficiency” by amending the first filing to give it a go once more. The first filing did not have standing to sue because the plaintiffs brought their case under the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act. In addition, after spending over one hundred hours pleading and arguing, counsel for the ambulance chasers realized they had framed their clients relationship and argument with YTB incorrectly. The new suit now holds claim that the relationship between YTB and RTA’s are under consumer laws, (business-to-consumer) even though the RTA-YTB relationship would typically be viewed as business-to-business.

punterDo words like “failed”, “corrected”, “deficiency”, “amending”, “incorrectly”, and “realized after 100 hours of arguing”, give you a warm fuzzy concerning the counsel that is representing this group?

After admitting so many errors in the first filing, it appears that Counsel is just as clueless about the Network Marketing Industry as our critics who have been yammering about pyramids and scams for years. They may have even sought advise from the likes of Robert Fitzpatrick, Jon Taylor, and heaven forbid, John Frenaye. (After Wednesday’s post, you know what a huge mistake that would be.)

The suit filed back in August of last year went after the same four executives California did, Lloyd Tomer, Scott Tomer, Kim Sorensen and Andrew Cauthen. The new filing has added a smorgasbord of other names and companies to include two former board members, Timothy Kaiser and Clay Winfield, as well as their companies, Meridian Land Company and Winfield Development. The list also includes Beryl Martin, the printing company owned by Sorensen and Tomer, and while none of the defendants have been with YTB since October 2008, our new co-CEO who just joined back in April, Robert Van Patten has also been named in this new plea.

We’ll call it what it is: a shotgun approach.

Counsel certainly didn’t get any help from the plaintiffs in this action concerning YTB’s marketing model or opportunity. When we looked at the list of Plaintiffs in the filing we found an average of eight months worth of experience with the company. Two gave up in just four months, and decided playing the role of victim was a much easier option to make the millions they were after when they signed up.

  • Courtney Speed – 4 months
  • Kwame Thompson – 4 months
  • Grace Perry – 5 months
  • John Stull – 6 months
  • Faye Morrison – 11 months
  • Jeff and Polly Hartman – 18 months

Surprised? Not me.

I got a call yesterday afternoon from a client who debarked in the port of Miami with his family of three. He called to tell me that I was right, a five day was too short, and he’ll be booking a seven day with me just as soon as he can. Of course, I’ve been with YTB for four years, not four months. So it’s not surprising that this group who “dabbled as a travel agent” for an average of eight months were not as productive. I think back to my first year, and remember how slow bookings were. But I was also new to the industry, and spent a considerable amount of time learning, not selling. What I did sell was from pure passion about a product I loved.

I found a couple of humorous concepts in the filing which I’d like to share with you just to show how ridiculous this new suit is.

The claim states that BandBVacations.com is not a business that sells products or services. Since YTB strictly controls my actions, they are the ones who are selling the products and services. Therefore, the call I got from my client from Miami apparently was routed through the home office and not directly to me. According to the claim, everything goes through the home office in Wood River. I couldn’t get the call, couldn’t book the cruise, and won’t be seeing the commission since I’m an “agent of the travel agency”. I don’t offer a 100,000 ton cruise ship product, YTB does. The service of an excellent vacation to the Caribbean, also YTB’s.

Poppy cock! My clients don’t even know who YTB is, but they do know Doug and Ronda with BandBVacations.com, and Illinois will have a tough time finding anyone who has a better relationship with someone at the home office over any one of our RTA’s.

As an RTA I’ve made a net profit from travel sales, but the suit claims that this is impossible for most, if not all, RTA’s. I would agree that that it would be impossible for any RTA who spends less than six months in this business. But to say it’s impossible for the 25th Largest Seller of Travel in the Nation with $425 million in gross product and services sold, and a net of $27.9 million is a farce. I know the margins in the industry stink, but that’s not because it’s an illegal pyramid. Unless of course you want to call Carnival, Pleasant Holidays, Disney, Sandals, and Holiday Inn a scam. (I will agree however with a growing number about United and American Airlines.)

I’d would assert that a number of RTA’s have figured out how to make a profit, including yours truly. Instead of complaining about it, why not find someone who is making a profit and learning how to do what they do?

And finally in a very strange twist, while the suit claims that we don’t sell a product or service. (In order to make it sound like a “pyramid scheme”) The suit deducts and supports it claims that it’s impossible for RTA’s to make money selling travel in the following mannor.

(You’re going to LOVE this…)

YTB Defendants marketed and sold products to the travel purchaser market generally. As of 2007, YTB was considered the 26th largest travel agency in the United States, and their market share continued to grow. YTB Defendants directed their operations at the travel purchaser market generally by marketing and selling their products and services, such as airline tickets and cruise packages, to the public at large. Moreover, YTB Defendants’ illegal pyramid scheme injured both their travel agency competitors as well as travel consumers. YTB Defendants stole market share from brick-and-mortar travel agencies, putting many out of business. Moreover, by eliminating their competition, YTB Defendants increased the cost of travel for travel consumers at large. As such, Defendants’ illegal pyramid scheme was directed at the travel consumer market generally, effected the consumer market and otherwise implicated consumer protection concerns.

Give me a second here…I have to dry my eyes.

Do you see what they’ve done here? By taking the products and services away from us, (the RTA) the suit slaps YTB Corporate with not only defrauding consumers, (our clients) but Corporate is solely responsible for Cruise Value Center closing, Liberty Travel layoffs, and the Joystar bankruptcy. They all sold a product and service that YTB not only took away, but YTB is now increasing the cost of that product or service to these consumers.

Picture Ron Head or Coach here when I say “WOW!”

Come to think of it, this IS filed with the courts now, so this idea that YTB is putting Travel Agencies out of business has to be true right? (Nah…it doesn’t cut the mustard when John Frenaye pull that stunt, so why should it with me.)

The point here folks is to show you how absolutely absurd this new filing is, and this is a second swipe at it after the first attempt needed to be amended. If you want to buy into this crap, I’d have some serious reservations about how much common sense you actually have. This entire claim is nothing more than a fishing expedition to save face for those who wouldn’t take that time to learn a craft that frankly is very easy to talk about. And because it’s easy to talk about, simply opening your mouth and telling someone that you sell travel will give you the same shot as Travelocity when they see some Roaming Gnome on TV.

And to the Plaintiffs in this case, the quote is NOT “punt”, it’s “try, try, again”.

Idiots.

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Doug & Ronda Bauknight
Doug & Ronda Bauknight
AKA: TravelPro
Travel Agent / Networker
Phone: 678.458.5812
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10 Responses to “If At First You Don’t Succeed…Punt?!”

  1. born2fly Says:

    Doug,

    Like several people I am proud of your work to stay factual about YTB. I consider myself adult enough to dig and find the truth like you do. I was part of Amway back in the growing days of the early ’90s and all their legal challenges. Amway corporate did exactly what YTB corporate is doing and stayed focused on their overall goal and not the negative jealous naysayers. The rest is history. I just watched the NBA Playoffs last month in the “Amway Collosium”. YTB and their current reps are dedicated to the big picture and YTB will come out on top. Again, the truth will always be. I stand with you and all the current reps!!

  2. TravelPro Says:

    Any business that’s worth anything ruffles some feathers and gets attacked. Amway, AL Williams, Wal-Mart, Microsoft…

    Most laughed at them too, and told them they’d never make it.

    I was on a call this morning that gave me a heads up at what will be announced and implemented at Convention. When implemented, it should be a very strong sign to our critics that YTB isn’t backing down and moving forward.

    I can assure you that those that have stayed the course will be glad they did.

  3. jfrenaye Says:

    Do words like “failed”, “corrected”, “deficiency”, “amending”, “incorrectly”, and “realized after 100 hours of arguing”, give you a warm fuzzy concerning the counsel that is representing this group?
    Words like YTB “failed” to adhere to the laws of California and “corrected” their “deficiency” by “amending” the manner in which they promote the company because they “incorrectly” “realized after a $1 million dollar fine” that they were in trouble. Do those words give you the warm and fuzzies?

    Yes the announcements sound exciting. I wonder how they will be received. Some of them are good, and others are risky. I assume you are talking about:
    $99/monthly payment plan for those unable to afford the $500 to buy in
    10% performance bonus for Coach’s Corner members
    $2000 guaranteed salary + insurance for directors starting with as few as 75 TSOs
    That wonderful Vegas package for $99
    And paying all TSOs a commission every time their site quotes a package.

  4. TravelPro Says:

    John,

    I have to be honest. I find it fascinating how you can rearrange word’s and switch them around turning someone’s original comments into something completely different.

    It’s a real gift.

    But I have to ask, if these “quoted” words are merely inserted by you and not found in California’s original suit or settlement, how does it have any bearing? Does it make you feel better? Does it turn your illusion into a reality? Do you think someone would actually believe it?

    I mean…why do it when everyone knows that it’s created as a poor attempt to try and turn the tables and deflect things back on YTB?

    While my article talks about YTB John, it’s not about YTB, but about the legal process that is now holding everyone, including you to a certain degree, accountable. You were quite adamant about the power California had in shutting our company down for being a “gigantic pyramid scheme” right?

    How did that work out for you and the rest of the gang? Do you consider it successful now that it’s all over? Has your mission of ridding your industry of Travel MLM’s been accomplished? (Or at least YTB?)

    I do have a warm fuzzy and have enjoyed how our legal system is making everyone cross their T’s and dot it’s I’s. Like the California legal process, the process in Illinois not only points out but apparently knows what the law is. While neither claim filed in each state enjoys the same luxury you have here on the internet, I know that their claims, unlike you, are being held accountable to prove the accusations made in regard to actual law.

    We finally found a system and process that knows how to read, comprehend, and logically work through things in order to set the record straight.

    While it’s taking some time, and we have to endure you’re idiosyncrasies with words, phobias, and obsession with YTB, much has already been brought to light to show the truth.

    It really does give me a warm fuzzy to see that illusions you and others have are being called out and corrected.

    On another note, and not that I was really expecting you to correct this…

    I noticed you never updated that our phone system was back up after the system failure we had on Thursday. If you forgot, it’s the 2nd of three posts you did on Thursday about YTB.

    I also noticed that you and the others still don’t know the difference between an Associate and Web Site Seller and how that ties into the separate compensation for our RTA’s.

    I know this is a stretch, but maybe you could take a page out of what California and Illinois have learned and actually start discussing this like an adult by admitting that you might not be the one who is always right.

    But that’s just me.

    PS – Cool upgrades huh? I was actually shocked to see these along with my pass for Convention in the mail. I was told Convention would never happen, and we’d never make it a year. But we’ll see who’s right in 10 days.

  5. TravelDeals Says:

    I read the part about being compared to Bernie Madoff. Those people lost tens of thousands, some millions!

    Those in YTB lost because they quit. I mean how hard is it to find someone once per quarter to break even? It’s not that hard to break even in this business if you open your mouth and tell someone.

  6. jfrenaye Says:

    Doug–the words were not twisted. They were copied and pasted from your own post, so I am not sure what you are talking about.

    If you look back, I am pretty sure I never said California would put YTB out of business. I always knew it would put a whammy on YTB and it indeed did. How do you explain the still continuing drop of RTAs and Reps. Please none of the “they didn’t work the business” rhetoric. Did California have the potential to put YTB under? Sure, and to be honest, I did think the agreement would have been stronger and more likely been so restrictive that YTB would have chosen to exit the California market. But hey, it is what it is and now YTB is calling it a win because it cost them several million dollars and a million dollar fine to learn how to operate legally in California. We will see how the courts rule on Lisa Madigan and the Class Action suits. And the others that will be likely coming down the line.

    I am sorry for your inability to read. As I made a correction to the phone entry. If this:
    UPDATE:
    To all valued members of YTB:
    The YTB phone system
    is temporarily down. Our provider is working to restore their service as soon as possible. We apologize for any inconvenience.

    Thank you.

    YTB Home Office

    was not clear enough for you to comprehend, I apologize.

  7. TravelPro Says:

    LOL!

    “Rhetoric” is a very interesting word coming from you.

    Especially in light of the ungainly monster of 39 pages containing 133 paragraphs which was filed last week.

    Please don’t bother me or needlessly take my attention from current matters to visit your blathering in an attempt to defend your position again and again.

    Let’s just see how this all works out to see who is right and who is wrong here.

    Deal?

  8. Amended Class Action Against YTB Thrown Out | Just Picture It Now Says:

    [...] On Friday, I wrote about an absolutely ridiculous amended complaint filed by a group of “ambulance chasers” looking to score a quick buck. Outrageous [...]

  9. YTB Class Action Denied – AGAIN! | Just Picture It Now Says:

    [...] While critics labeled the complaint “powerful” I had my own views on the subject and outlined how the Plaintiffs in this case were just as clueless as the critics who have been plastering “pyramid scheme” all over the internet for [...]

  10. This Is Embarassing… | Just Picture It Now Says:

    [...] What’s even more mind blowing is their claims and position hasn’t changed a single bit. The latest filing is almost verbatim of the first suit file two years ago. It’s the same bogus myths and pyramid scheme mantra with the same cast of characters. What happened to words like “failed”, “corrected”, “deficiency”, “amending”, “incorrectly”, and “realized …? [...]

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