Bang Head Here…
One of the most powerful skills you can learn in this day and age is DISCERNMENT. Knowing when you’re hearing truth or lies is a necessity, not a luxury. One of the things I pride myself on is providing third party documentation to validate what’s being written.
Back when California agreed to settle it’s lawsuit with YTB and the final papers were filed, I gave you direct access to the legal documents that were signed by all parties involved. I did this so everyone could read for themselves what the settlement actually said instead of relying on all the garbage that was being posted on the Internet. (Which started with the very person who filed this nonsense about YTB being some sort of “gigantic pyramid scheme” and the “Press Release” that said so.)
It’s been said before that when YTB sneezes, the entire industry catches a cold. News reports soon followed concerning the settlement that YTB had been stopped by the California Attorney General and created a media frenzy of mass confusion on forums, message boards and blogs.
I attempted to cut out all the nonsense and spin by asking everyone to actually read the filing instead of following the propaganda and spin elsewhere. For the most part, people did actually take the time to read the settlement and some of the bullet points that I documented at that time.
Yet we still have a few stragglers who either can’t seem to grasp, or more likely, don’t care to grasp the reality of what this settlement has actually done for YTB. You need to remember that the promise from the California Attorney General was to shut the company down. (Or at least that’s what we had to endure for 10 months.) Those who were convinced about the power Jerry Brown had have been shown otherwise once the settlement was reached. You would think some would man up and consider the possibility that they might not know as much as they think or claim. The California AG did come up considerably short in shutting the company down and $25 million the suit was seeking dwindled to $1 million in the process, so you certainly can’t claim any type of victory there.
Still the initial suit was brought about which attempted to cut the legs out from under the big recruiting commissions being paid to the field. The entire focus, because of something I call “wealth envy”, were the millions paid to YTB Reps for building the business, and not enough money being generated from actual travel sales. Therefore the settlement addressed this phobia directly in what has become known as the “60% Rule”.
(f)(2) Defendants may pay a Website Seller compensation based on the Website Seller’s Total Personal Sales Volume (the dollar amount paid to Defendants that month as a result of the Website Seller’s personal sales) only if the Website Seller has met that requirements of subparagraph (f)(1), [compensation other than a $50 flat fee] immediately above. Defendants shall not pay a Website Seller the full amount of such compensation unless at least 60% of the Website Seller’s Total Personal Sales Volume is derived from Website Owners who are not also Website Sellers. If more than 40% of a Website Seller’s Total Personal Sales Volume is derived from Website Owners who are also Website Sellers, the amount of such compensation Defendants may pay the Website Seller shall be reduced so that the amount of such compensation derived from payments by persons who are also Website Sellers does not exceed 40% of such compensation paid to the Website Seller in any month.
I explained in the article that addressed the settlement when it was announced how worthless this particular clause was, but put there anyway to address the common misconceptions and fears surrounding our company. The hope of this clause was that it would curb the hefty recruiting commissions.
Defendants shall not pay a Website Seller the full amount of such compensation unless at least 60% of the Website Seller’s total personal sales volume is derived from Website Owners who are not also Website Sellers. Meaning that you now need to limit the amount of Website Sellers in your business. You actually want people that are solely interested in selling travel. If you look at the Income Disclosure Statement from 2007, it documents that 80% of the people in YTB didn’t recruit a single person you quickly realize that’s not going to be hard to do.
The idea here is an attempt to limit the amount of income Website Sellers make. (Also known as “recruiters”.) Clearly, California and the “experts” who designed this didn’t bother looking at the Income Disclosure Statement when they designed this rule. With only 20% of the company acting as Website Sellers, it’s not going to be very difficult for Website Sellers in the company moving forward to make that 60/40 split. Unfortunately for California and other critics who have a phobia about “recruiters”, they got too caught up in the actual income and not how the large sums of income were actually made.
When we go back a few years and look at the breakdown between those who sell travel, those that recruit, and those that do both the 2007 income disclosure statement documents more than 80% of YTB were “Website Owners who were not also Website Sellers”. If we go back just one year to the 2008 the income disclosure statement the percentage of both “Website Owners who are not also Website Sellers” increases to 89%. Both the 80% from 2007 and 89% from 2008 assumes that everyone is Website Owner. (RTA/TSO)
Moving forward with the new requirements in the settlement, if we again assume that everyone wants to be both a Website Owner and Website Seller each individual who accomplishes this must first refer 3 other “Associates” who wish to do the same. If successful and that Associate upgrades to a Website Seller and is also a Website Owner, only one person in their organization (out of 4 meaning 25%) qualify as both a Website Owner and Website Seller, far below the 40% that the settlement addresses.
So you can take your pick here. 20% were both in 2007, 11% were both in 2008, and moving forward we increase to whopping 25% ratio between Website Owners who are not also Website Sellers. At best we see gap of 15% below the 40% required to appease the new “60% Rule”. (Also assuming that everyone wants to be both a Website Seller and Website Owner.)
You may be asking yourself at this point; if documentation and the facts provided are informing me that this “60% Rule” isn’t a legitimate concern, why should I care?
Because “The Stalker” says so. (More on that name a little later…)
In a post written yesterday, we found a very creative play on why YTB will be re-activating Travel Sites that have gone inactive over the last year. More than likely these sites have lapsed simply due to falling for this idea that California had the power and resources to topple YTB and a decision was made by the Website Owners to move on.
This new take is as follows, as the self proclaimed “expert” on YTB and MLM.
Rather than comply directly with this requirement, they are simply artificially inflating the number of travel sellers (RTAs/TSOs). There are many people that simply quit YTB without an official notice. Maybe they canceled their cards or disputed the transactions.
Well, now YTB appears to be turning on all of these sites back on (after all they never got an official notice to turn them off) and can re-assign them at will to the appropriate Power Team Leaders who may not comply with the 60% rule. Shrewd. Very Shrewd.
Now, I have to ask you: based on what we know based on documentation dating back to 2007 concerning those in YTB who actively participated as both Website Owners and Website Sellers, how is this possible? Why on earth would YTB now need to inflate the RTA numbers? Because critics have said so and without being aware of what’s being spun, most people would not be able to discern the truth from the lie created.
This idiot (along with the other dolts who blindly hang on his every word) have given us yet one more example of their ignorance. It’s not that they’re incapable of figuring this out, it’s that they are unwilling to look at YTB as anything other than flawed. These desperate attempts to spin and create doubt as specifically designed for anyone who might be looking into YTB and does not have access to the documentation that discredits it. (Note: not one link or reference to any actual numbers in the post. Just an observation from some numb nut who thinks he’s got it all figured out.)
I did make a small attempt to engage in the conversation there after receiving several e-mails asking how this “creative take” could be accurate. But upon returning several hours later, the conversation wondered off to Steals and Deals, the Can Spam Act, and claims that my life has fallen to new lows. (They never were very good at staying on topic.)
Instead I found the exercise above more productive.
Look, I know your tired of dealing with the lies, the misinformation, and the spin just as much as I am. You might as well resign yourself to the fact that there are those who are determined to throw this type of mud out there. They can’t help themselves and it’s becoming obvious that they need some sort of 12 step program or a good shrink to cure what ails them. Unfortunately, the first step is an awareness that you have a problem. I’ve been enduring this dolt going on two years now and I just don’t see any of them coming to grips with what YTB truly is any time soon.
In fact, it’s been getting worse rather than better now that YTB has once again shown how clueless this “expert” really is.
I mentioned “The Stalker” a little while ago. That’s the new name the Home Office has given John Frenaye. We’ve come up with this name because he’s reporting information on his blog from my newsletter based on the access he’s obtained. We also had a new revelation that he’s now a fan of Coach on the new Facebook page. That should tell you that his desperation and obsession is getting worse not better. It had been discussed that we de-fan him, but he’d only appear once again as some “John Doe”, so he’ll remain as is. (Much like he has with my newsletter.)
Just be aware that he’s joining these groups designed for YTB members, in an attempt to continue on with his charade that MLM’s and Travel don’t mix. If you’re like me, you begin to find the claims about YTB always being the one who reacts and responds odd. Truth is, it’s the critics and the industry that always responds to what YTB does. Not the other way around.
The trick is knowing when you’re hearing the truth or just another lie.
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Tags: Anti-MLM, Critics, John Frenaye, MLM Myths
July 15th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Not a stalker at all. I am clearly identified and have never shied away from identifying who I am. If you or YTB is so concerned, why a public site? In a similar vein, are you a stalker as well? I mean you are visiting my blog under various names and so forth.
You are very predictable Doug, when you know I am correct (or that you are wrong) you resort to name calling. At one point, we had a civil discourse. But in January of 2008, you realized perhaps that I had a point and immediately went on the personal attack and the rest is history.
As to your math and your so-called documentation. In 2008, YTB had 89,826 TSOs per the TSO Income Disclosure. They also had 209,545 Reps/Website Sellers per the Rep Income Disclosure. I am not sure where you find that equates to 11%.
I have not been able to find any documentation that indicates how many TSOs are also Reps and vice versa. And since I know you love documentation so much, I am sure yo can understand my hesitancy to take your word on it. However, since the Rep program is free, I have to assume the great majority of the TSOs are also Reps.
The settlement (you have the link or you can go to my blog and get it–I posted it as well and before you ever got a hold of it)says (in layman’s terms) that the Rep income in California needs to come from 40% of people that are REPS/TSOs and 60% TSO only.
Well, when YTB promotes the Rep side as free. And really the only lucrative side of the business, it is a safe assumption that the majority of the TSOs are indeed Reps as well.
That is unless there are some inactive TSO sites out there that could be reactivated to bring up the percentage!
July 15th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I did a lot of checking on the internet for information on YTB before I decided to join YTB. I still look around some to see what is new or different. So far it is my opinion that most of the people who post negative information about YTB do so in hopes of recruiting you to join there business, which is usually some sort of travel business. It is sometimes a club that offers discounts and the chance to organize group trips and cruises that you can make money on and go on the trip or cruise free.
If I was in a business that had to put down another more successful business to try to sell my course or business, I believe I would find another way to make money.
July 15th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
HL;
That’s an excellent observation. The push from the TTA’s is to get us to dump YTB and join what they consider a “legitimate host”.
John;
To stalk means to proceed in a steady, deliberate, or sinister manner.
Many victims of stalkers know who their stalker is, so I’m not sure how being open about your active participation changes things. You have been very consistent over the years and don’t have any boundaries in areas you either don’t belong or are unwanted.
You’ve become a Rep, you’ve joined YTB Forums, you’ve attended meetings, you have access to my newsletter, and are now a fan of Coach. If it has anything to do with YTB, you manage to find a way to be a part of it.
What the hell for?
What it boils down to John is motive. You have no desire to be a part of YTB other than blathering your own opinions and perceptions about what you think YTB is doing or not doing with your self proclaimed expert opinion, which has damaged your credibility and reputation.
I would like to thank you for your comment however. It has clarified that you choose once again to either ignore, (or simply can not comprehend) what you are reading.
188,538 of the 209,545 (89%) do not qualify as “Website Sellers” and are clearly marked as “Associates”. None of the 188,538 qualify as both Website Seller and Website Owner under the settlement agreement. Only 11% of the 209,545 could be both Website Sellers and Website Owners.
Sorry.
Like Coach’s “travel overrides”, the stock options, $6 million in losses, the CLIA loophole, Jerry’s ability to shut YTB down, the ex parte application filed by Toma, the tentative agreement, and countless other errors in judgment or comprehension have shown your ignorance not expert analysis.
But all we hear from you is…”I don’t recall anyone ever pointing out that I’ve been wrong before.”
Why anyone even reads your take any longer is an oddity I’m afraid will never be answered.
You’ll keep up with the charade of arrogance and expert opinion until your last dying breath John, because you’re unwilling to admit any error in the almighty John W. Frenaye.
Best of luck with that.
July 15th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Doug,
Maybe you answer this for me.
Why are these former Reps now called Associates?
July 15th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
That’s a very good question Dale.
The short answer is because they don’t qualify as “Website Sellers” under that new settlement requirements. In order to qualify as a “Website Seller” you need to have 3 Website Owners under you.
Until you meet those qualifications you are an Associate and are not an active participant in the recruiting aspect of our company. You can remain an Associate for as long as you like, but will only receive a $50 referral fee until you upgrade to Website Seller.
I have focused the majority of my time and effort talking to people about the travel side of our business. Therefore I have attracted others who are also interested in selling travel. A number of my team members have told me point blank, “I’m in this to sell travel and will not be recruiting.” Two of my team members told me flat out that if I asked them to recruit anyone they would quit. Because it’s their business, I’ve respected their wishes.
The overwhelming majority of participants in our company wish to sell travel only, not recruit.
Because critics have this illusion that everyone gets into YTB so they can recruit is simply a figment of their overactive imagination. Both the 2007 and 2008 Income Disclosure Statements document that a large portion (80% in 2007 and 89% in 2008) of our company does not recruit a single soul. Yet critics are certain that everyone in the company is in this to make big bucks recruiting the world because that’s what they’ve been told.
July 15th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Okay, now I get it. I just didn’t know what the requirement was.
I am one of the “Associates” who doesn’t want to recruit either and got into YTB to sell travel and take advantage of a what a home based business offers.
One more question if you could?
What’s the real story behind the Steals and Deals, the Can Spam, and if YTB owns the customer?
I hate asking all these questions but there seems to be some confusion about this issue as well.
Thanks for your help!
July 15th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
LOL! The confusion is both by design and a result of ignorance. Many who are talking about the Can Spam Act don’t know enough about the process to see the holes in what they are trying to pitch over on John’s blog.
If you look at the Can Spam Act, we clearly cover all the bases there. The “Act” itself does not address the inputting of e-mails manually into a system like they are describing on John’s blog. That hurdle points to the ISP not the Can Spam Act.
Steals and Deals is very simple, and straight forward, but only if you know how the Steals and Deals or a mass mailing service like Aweber works. (The system I use for my newsletter.)
First, Steals and Deals requires what is known as a “double opt-in”. I can enter all the names and e-mail addresses I want, but the recipient(s) I input from my list need to verify with a click on a link on THEIR end before they are approved into the system and sent weekly mailings. If the end user does not verify, no further communication is sent from YTB on my behalf. If they complain they end up sending the actual request to solicit. If they opt-in, and then complain we have the unsubscribe, physical address, originating domain name and email address. (Along with a log of the original opt in link.)
This is a standard practice with any mailing list who keeps up to date with the both Can Spam and what ISP’s require in order to pass through their systems. With a mailing list as large as YTB’s (even those 1/4 of the size) they are dead without this type of verification process. It would trigger far to many complaints and the ISP’s would ban the sender. We wouldn’t be able to market to anyone attached to that ISP. (AOL, Comcast, Yahoo, Gmail, Bellsouth, MSN, etc.)
Second, Steals and Deals are sent with your unique “code” embedded so you get the credit for the sale. (User ID or TSO number) YTB could continue to market on the behalf of an inactive TSO to make sales, but unless your travel site is active, all those links are dead.
Thus the REAL reason for turning the sites back on. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s simply a way to tell everyone that despite what they may have heard about YTB, we’re alive and kickin.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Doug, Just wanted to tell you how very glad I am that you take the time to put out the truth about YTB and dispel the myths that are being circulated by the “expert”. I appreciate your positive attitude and your dedication.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Thank you TC. Your comments mean more than you know.
And right back at you. ;-P
They really do know how to pile on the horse dung don’t they?
I attempted to do what you did for months, it was even civil for a time. But just as soon as I started to call them on a couple of facts, the game changed and I was cast off as a “dumb ass”, “duffas”, and I think “impotent” was mentioned a couple of times.
Just remember it’s not about truth for them, but others who read do care about what’s right. They may not say it, they may not even appear to be there, but they are reading and a good solid line of clear, logical, documented facts can overcome the name calling and yelling that goes on over in that Adult Day Care.
And FYI – A good set of hip waiters and a cloths pin attached to ones nose should keep you in the game a little longer. ;-P
July 16th, 2009 at 11:04 am
I agree with TravelCop about your efforts to dispel the myths circulating about our fine company. I get your newsletter each week and read this blog on a regular basis. I find your information both informative and accurate.
Has JWF been back to see how wrong he was? Since he hasn’t commented I’m wondering if he’s ignoring you or simply hasn’t seen your response.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Thank you also TD.
Although I have not checked, from past experience John does make regular visits to this blog several times a day.
I wouldn’t look for a response however. When he’s been shown errors here in the past, he lays low for a couple of weeks before attempting to post again.
July 17th, 2009 at 8:16 am
[...] sought advise from the likes of Robert Fitzpatrick, Jon Taylor, and heaven forbid, John Frenaye. (After Wednesday’s post, you know what a huge mistake that would [...]