Surprise!
I’ve enjoyed the last couple of days watching the critics swarm around the virtual water coolers on the internet just licking their chops for the third quarter numbers to come out. I checked one of my favorite places and laughed at how anxious they were. It reminded me of a bunch of addicts waiting for some dealer to show up so they could get their fix. It’s been more than 19 years since my last drink or drug, but I still remember waiting with anxious anticipation for THAT car being the guy with my next score.
Imagine their surprise when the dealer ends up being an undercover Cop to bust them.
On what charge you say? Being F.O.S. (Think about it.)
The speculation of course was that YTB has been bleeding money, and Management doesn’t know how to manage the money they have. When news broke earlier in the week over the pending sale of the old Home Office building it was because YTB was in a cash crunch. It had nothing to do with the fact we have a gorgeous new 130,000 square-foot complex to move into. No, we needed the money because our critics were absolutely sure that there would be yet another huge loss for YTB.
Why? Because recruiting is down, and the focus of course (actually “phobia” is a much better choice of words) has always been about the recruiting. Their theory is that if you can cut the recruiting off at the knees you cut the life blood of the pariah that consumes and controls your life.
How I would have loved to see the looks on the faces when critics opened the YTB 10-Q and saw a profit for Q3 of $287,999.
Surprise!
So what went wrong? How could the critics have been so far off base? (Again)
Simple. They don’t have the first clue how a Network Marketing business actually operates and stays solvent. (I’ll even go as far as stating ANY business for that matter.) This quarterly provides proof that it’s not about “recruiting” and the Kool-aid they’ve been drinking is spiked with nothing but rumors, lies and myths.
None of these characters have any actually experience in Network Marketing, and the knowledge they acquire to form their beliefs and opinions isn’t even “book learning” for the most part. Many of the beliefs are formed from the very massage boards and blogs they participate in. The blind leading the blind so to speak, so it’s not at all surprising that everyone ended up looking like dolts.
I don’t know, nor do I care if they’ll ever grasp that the money made in selling travel agencies goes directly out to the field. Every penny of the $449.95 from the sale of a travel agency is tied to the representatives who sold it. If you like that idea, you can join the ranks of YourTravelBiz.com for free by the way. And “free” negates the California complaint according to the letter of the law. But that’s yet another surprise we have for our critics.
The number critics were looking for certainly showed up with a mere 114,614 active RTA’s at the end of the quarter, a decrease of 13% from the previous quarter. Sales of travel agencies were cut more than half, down from 38k in Q3 of 2007 to 15k the current quarter.
So how in the world could YTB show anything other than massive bleeding and negative numbers?
Here’s a quick breakdown of the numbers.
- Online travel store sales increased $1,205,560 or 10.8%
- Monthly renewal fees increased $576,579 or 3.3%
- Travel commissions and services increased $2,478,103 or 44.8%
- Training programs and marketing materials revenue decreased ($1,843,333) or 40.8%
- Other income increased in the third quarter by $590,203 or 52.7%
Net revenues totaled $42,876,354 and $39,869,242 in the third quarter of 2008 and 2007, respectively, a slight increase of 7.5%.
Expenses also increased considerably year over year with the following breakdown.
- Depreciation and amortization increased of 123.0% or $374,274.
- Marketing and selling expenses increased by $825,865 or 152.0%
- General and administrative expenses increased 50.7% or $6,242,058.
So let’s me see if we have this right? We had a decrease in RTA’s, increased expenditures, but increased revenue for a quarterly profit of $288K?
Yep. The numbers don’t lie, that’s exactly what happened and our critics are busy scratching their heads wondering what happened.
What’s so much fun to watch is that after Q2 reports came out, and predictions of up to $6 million in losses bit them in the gluteus maximus, we were told to wait until Q3. Excuses started to emerge just like they are now. The spin and claims now are that none of the additional slander and junk they’ve been spinning has had time to take full effect. The California suit had just been announced, and ambulance chasers decided to get into the action as well to spread fear about the end of YTB mid quarter. Now that those allegations have come up lame these very same people who simply ignored the egg on their face last quarter are looking once again into the unknown. Believe it or not, we’re all supposed to wait until the Annual Report for them to show us they’re right and we’re wrong. How fun it is watching them weasel their way out of yet another speculative blunder.
For the record, I don’t know why they do it. It’s almost as if they like looking like clowns. I think a more accurate description would be that their entire existence revolves around proving their superior knowledge and understanding about any subject of conversation. It could be taxes, travel, ethics, stocks, laws, compliance, you name it. If it’s being discussed around the virtual water coolers on the internet, they always appear to be the guy or gal who’s “in the know”.
And a simple word of caution when it comes to correcting any of them. Don’t. You’ll be called every name in the book, as they attempt to shame you into submission among the other participants. Looking at this intelligently or rationally will have you scorned until you either give up or conform to their way of thinking. My best advice is to just smile and nod in a positive manor and when you turn your back you can then roll your eyes, or smirk and chuckle to yourself how insecure and desperate they are.
So we’ll just have to wait, AGAIN, for the promise of our critics showing us that this model just doesn’t work. It’s flawed because all the money is made recruiting people. When the recruiting dries up like it has, we’re promised that the house of cards we’ve built will come crashing down.
Do you really want to worry about such nonsense and spin? Or would you rather look at the fact that YTB turned a profit under the combined adversity of mud slinging and economic conditions?
The choice is yours.
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Tags: Quarterly Report, SEC, YourTravelBiz, YTB Travel Network, YTBLA
November 15th, 2008 at 9:41 am
In the words of one of our classiest(sarcasm) critics…..ROTFL!
November 15th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
[...] Vote Surprise! [...]
November 15th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Yeah, I’ve been having a good time with the excuses and creative math.
Here’s a REAL doozie…
Did you know that we pay our home office staff $19K a month?! I absolutely lost it when Ainsworth was sure that the 17 employees we laid off on August 29th saved YTB some $300k.
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/08/25/daily112.html?ana=yfcpc
$19K for 22 days work! Heck, even I’d go get a job with that kind of pay!
I also see they’ve forgotten what a “sale” is and what “commissions” from those sales actually are. And of course the one complaint gets an “s” attached to it meaning plural, because they’re still holding out hope that Illinois will chime in. And of course the BBB is brought up again, not knowing that the complaints have been resolved or closed.
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/08/25/daily112.html?ana=yfcpc
Same story, different day, but I will give them this…
I don’t think I’ve ever seen them so creative.
I just sit back, watch and laugh at how desperate the spin is getting.
November 16th, 2008 at 12:32 am
And look at their long drawn out responses when you simply mention the bottom line of YTB making a profit. They copy and paste everything they have saved up for months. Seems like they are trying to convince themselves again of just how this can’t be true. Oh, and then just plain making up stuff like we are being sued by two states!
November 16th, 2008 at 7:01 am
YTB has been profitable the last 4 out of 6 quarters. Net revenues overall are $11 million shy of last years numbers, with travel commissions already exceeding 2007 by $2 million. The home stretch in the 4th quarter should prove year over year growth overall.
Doug;
You put the link up the St. Louis Business Journal instead of the BBB. I believe you wanted this link instead.
http://stlouis.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=142&bbb=0734&firm=110220794
Which brings up this question. After looking at the BBB report it looks as if all the complaints have been either resolved by YTB or closed by the BBB. If that’s the case, why does YTB still have “no rating” with the BBB? If YTB is answering and resolving the complaints wouldn’t that lead to a satisfactory rating? I keep on reading that the rating is “unsatisfactory”, but clearly that’s not the case.
Do you know why we have “No Rating” now?
November 16th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Dale;
It’s my understanding that we need to pay the BBB for that rating. Many people are under the impression that the BBB is a non-profit or Government entity. They are neither. Any company that wants a “satisfactory” rating needs pay for it.
You are correct by the way, that’s the page I intended to post. Thanks for the correction.
Medic;
Part of the reason I don’t participate on the forums and blogs any longer is that it takes up far too much time correcting the misconceptions and lies out there. The M.O. for our critics is to bombard contributors with so much misinformation you can’t possibly dismiss everything they’ve written. When you take a single idea or comment, they rarely concede, and if they do on that particular point, they demand that the rest of the garbage they post is correct since you neither corrected nor acknowledged the misinformation.
It’s simply a way for them to give the illusion of being not only knowledgeable but right.
November 16th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
You are absolutely right. They are a lot like an old fire chief I had. His motto was (or seemed to be) “If you can’t beat’em……confuse’em”.
November 17th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
TravelPro Says:
November 15th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Yeah, I’ve been having a good time with the excuses and creative math.
Here’s a REAL doozie…
Did you know that we pay our home office staff $19K a month?! I absolutely lost it when Ainsworth was sure that the 17 employees we laid off on August 29th saved YTB some $300k.
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/08/25/daily112.html?ana=yfcpc
Actually, Doug, what Ainsworth said was, and I quote from his posting on the other blog “The only reason that you are seeing any type of pluses on the report is because there aren’t those 2 ill advised total ship charters that the old fart wasn’t able to fill, but still had to pay for, and the salary saved by laying off 25 people in Wood River.”
So, you see, he isn’t attributing the whole thing to the saved salaries of those people. He in fact mentioned the 2 whole ship charters that coach wasn’t able to sell first, and the saved salaries second. Why didn’t you mention that little fact?
November 17th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Nice try Margaret, but I find it ironic that you have magically shown up this evening. You see, you have the same IP address as another subscriber here who said he no longer reads this blog.
His subscriber name is “tvainsworth”, AKA: Ainsworth, and both of you have the exact same IP address located in Baton Rouge, LA.
How could that be? I know you couldn’t be his wife. Ainsworth is out and he’s proud.
Maybe a sister? No not with a name like “Mike” in the e-mail.
Or maybe you’re just trying to cover up your tracks and attempting to spin what you said?
Sorry buddy, YTB took the losses for the ships in Q1, not Q3. It’s over and done with and doesn’t apply to the current quarter. Period.
Here’s your quote I’m referring to found in Friday’s post.
“If you add back in the salaries of the 25 laid off people, it would add up to more than the $326,636 in income from operations, I’m sure, and that would be a negative.”
The layoffs of 17 people (not 25) were executed on August 19th, one month worth of savings from operations. According to YOU, that would mean YTB paid these each of these employees $19K a month!
I’m not looking to play with or make up numbers that are not there. Nor do I need to explain what the numbers mean for people. Unlike YOU. People who do that are trying to hide something, or want people to perceive it in a way that it was not intended. Much like you’re trying to do currently by creating another account to give the illusion that someone other than YOU cares about any of the junk you post.
AKA: Spin. And this blog is a “No Spin” zone.
Nice try however.
PS – Margaret’s been banned. If you want to comment again, please use your own name “tvainsworth”.
PPS – And please do come back. I’m currently working on some Y-T-D stock comparisons in the travel industry. You won’t like them, but that’s the whole idea now isn’t it?
November 18th, 2008 at 12:13 am
Oh wow! Isn’t it amazing how so many YTB people are accused of “talking out of both sides of their mouths”? Especially by Margsworth. So much for “merit”.
Looking forward to the stock analysis comparison.
November 18th, 2008 at 1:06 am
Got to love how many bells and whistles this new blog has. Margaret just didn’t sound all that credible to me. Sure enough the search came up with a match to the two other comments Ainsworth posted from.
The thing is Medic, these are exactly the types of tricks our critics use to give the perception that things are not as they appear to be. They lie, they mislead, they exaggerate, and they impersonate others for their cause. In their mind, if it hurts YTB, all is forgiven.
Why? Because they honestly don’t think we’re smart enough to check things out for ourselves. We’re just dolts who listen to whatever anyone says. And they appear to be far superior both in knowledge and integrity.
Truth is, and I’ve said it before, it just shows how desperate they are.
November 18th, 2008 at 6:26 am
Well, at least I am consistent in my names.
However, a good debate requires at least acknowledging the other side. Both here and on “my blog” no one from YTB wants to address any of the “bad” things that were brought up regarding the 10-Q. It is not quite the rosy picture that Coach et al paints for the RTAs and Reps. And it is not just a “small group” of disgruntled TTAs either–read some of the press that follows up on it like the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and the Alton Telegraph. Even their hometown papers tend to side more with the TTA position than the Wizard of Oz picture Coach is spinning.
November 18th, 2008 at 7:16 am
Sorry John, we don’t allow referral links here. I’m not promoting that childish playground. Anyone who has an opposing view is ridiculed and beaten to death until they just go away. Even those of us who use to frequent there are still a daily topic of conversation, being called every name in the book.
To consider your blog a place for a good debate is a joke. Seriously, you have no idea who your talking to there. Ainsworth, Margaret, and Joe are one in the same. AT and Kit also appear to be one in the same.
So no, there really aren’t that many who participate over there.
YTB did address the “bad” things. We’ve made the decision to sell the jet didn’t we?
Speaking of “the press”, can you find me the phrase “we’re selling off assets to raise money” is located in the 10-Q? I seemed to have missed that, but the press along with you and your imaginary friends seem to have found it somewhere.
Please locate it for me and you are free to post it here.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Well Doug–if YTB is not selling assets to raise the cash, why are they? They have already incurred $500K of legal bills and have yet to have a court date nor have they yet addressed two of the three suits.
Here is a link to the article. It is not by a travel agency, it is by a business reporter:
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/business-news/biz-buzz/2008/11/ytb-growth-stalls-in-q3-sells-assets/
Along with the first paragraph:
Online travel company YTB International reported late Friday that it had a sharp drop in earnings in the third quarter, as its growth continued to stall amid legal and cash-flow challenges. It also said it plans to sell an Edwardsville office building and its corporate jet to raise cash.
The 10-Q does not have that specific phrase, but merely reports the facts to be analyzed. It also does not say the phrase that YTB is “doing great” or “doing poorly”. Leave that up to the people intelligent enough to read the filing.
I am glad to see that you are still editing your post comments. I woudl hate to think someone might oppose your point of view
November 18th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
LOL, Doug, you make me laugh. Even though I said I wouldn’t be coming back here, I see elsewhere that I need to so that I can explain how wireless internet works to you.
Yes, I know Margaret Kelley, but she and I are not the same people. Yes, I am out and proud, and have a partner of coming up on 8 years, but I also have a business partner and a housemate. That business partner and housemate is Margaret Kelley, affectionately called Peggy.
The reason that her IP address and my IP address are the same is quite simple, really, with no subterfuge, and no conspiracies. You see, in our house, we are totally wireless. We have 1 cable modem that has a static IP address, and a wireless router. That way, we don’t have wires running all over to the 5 different computers that are here. Therefore, anything that originates from any of those computers goes through the same modem, and gets the same IP address attached to it. So, anything that I might post somewhere will have the same IP address that Margaret, or Peggy if you will, has on things that she post somewhere. It all goes through the same modem.
See, like I said. No subterfuge, no conspiracies. As I told FireMedic, it’s the same thing that you like to say about YTB. Things are not always as they seem, and you need to investigate further before making baseless accusations.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Well Doug, it seems Ainsworth thinks you are paranoid. It just so happens (According to Ainsworth) that Margaret lives in the same house as he and uses the same wireless access as he. Guess that would mean Joe does too. But of course he said that on John’s blog. But since he doesn’t read your blog anymore he won’t come over here to comment on it. Looks more like MPD (mulitiple personality disorder). Bet it took him all night to figure out a way around that flub up.
November 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
John;
Obviously cash is a nice bonus from selling these assets, and it’s nice to see that these assets are finally being recognized. Up until the sale, I don’t believe anyone from your side actually acknowledged them as assets.
When I read about the jet in the 10-Q the very first thought that came to my mind was how Coach, Scott and Kim will now escape with the millions they’ve made off our backs.
Would you agree that they may have had a change of heart and decided to stick around?
The idea here is to keep the comments and the people who post them accountable. Not one of your strong suits I realize, but with a little more training I think you might have a good shot at debating the issues here. I see that the debate over on your blog has been shut down. So I would assume that your blog is not as open ended as you would like us to believe.
Unlike you, I have rules that everyone must follow and abide by to keep the debate orderly and to the point. If you don’t like the rules, there are plenty of other forums and blogs that you can participate in without any worry about having your own words come back to bite you.
Ainsworth;
I have no doubt that “Peggy” lives with you, I simply question if she’s the originating author of the posts both here and on John’s thread. I would also question why both she and John needed to “save you” from the accusations that you opened yourself up to.
And for the record, I would argue that I am well aware how networks operate. It was I, not you that brought up the question as to why both yours and Margaret’s post came from the same location.
Too bad for you.
Now if you could please stop deflecting and answer my original question as to how in the world YTB saved some $300K by laying off 17 people at the end of August, I’ll consider allowing you to continue to post here.
Firemedic;
You really need to stop posting over there. I hope you can see what a complete waist of time it is. They’re always right. You’re always wrong. And I’m afraid that concept will never change. (We can always hope however.)
I realize how your schedule works since one of my neighbors works for the Gwinnett County Fire Department. However the free time you have could be used to either build your business or sell some travel. Either option will produce income for you unlike posting on that hideous blog.
November 18th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
“Firemedic;
You really need to stop posting over there. I hope you can see what a complete waist of time it is. They’re always right. You’re always wrong. And I’m afraid that concept will never change. (We can always hope however.)”
I agree. It should be easier to let it go knowing now that there are not nearly as many posting over there as it may have originally seemed. That is, since many of the posters are the same people. And on top of that it seems John’s number of hits are way way down since the RCCL issue.
Doug, one of the things that the critics (the blind leading the blind as you so nailed it) will never understand is the leadership of the company we work with. You and I both know that if we had not spent time with these people that we too probably would have moved on. But one thing a true leader has is vision. Our leadership definitely has that and they know how to communicate that. Vision is definitely one thing I have never seen from the critics. We see past all the bad press. We see many many examples throughout history of great leaders that were able to see past what might seem like an almost certain defeat. And we see that those same leaders were called just about every name in the book too, but that didn’t stop them.
Show me just one of our critics that can compare to what we have experienced with our leadership.
November 18th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
“Show me just one of our critics that can compare to what we have experienced with our leadership.”
Hummmmmmm….
Let – me – see….
Maybe…
Ah hell, I got nothin’.
November 19th, 2008 at 6:24 am
The critics can not compare anything they have experienced wiht what YTB has experienced. One of the more truthful things that has been posted on this blog. I cannot name any TTAs or travel suppliers or associations that are being sued for being a scam. I cannot name one that has the precipitous loss seen by YTB yet blindly committs to assets they can nary afford. And when they do face challenges, they acknowledge them and work through them. At YTB all they do is send Scott out to tell everyone the story about Coach being chosen by his mom and how he is a minister and all is good.
FM–from your comment, do I assume you have hacked into my site to achieve the numbers? Or do I merely think it is yet another lie your perpetuate. I will be happy to post and share my Analytic numbers and you will see that the traffic has been very consistent.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:03 am
Huh? I was unaware that the suit filed was already settled in court. Can you supply the court ruling for us John if we are to assume that you have access to the Superior Court documents?
I would also like to recommend that you take some time off from commenting here about what you think you know, and start reading and studying.
Earlier this month I posted and linked to documentation concerning a Top 10 Agency according to Travel Weekly’s 2008 Power List. Please read “Musical Agencies” and the facts, figures and documentation concerning Liberty Travel. Flight Centre said it expects that Liberty will lose 15 million Australian dollars (about $10.2 million US) and that’s only in the second half of 2008.
Keep coming back John, as it’s my hope that you might actually learn something about your own industry.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Who said the suit was settled or tried? Is YTB not being sued by the California Attorney General? If not, please supply the proof. The proof I have says they are.
I think you might do very well to take your own advice and stick to things that you know about–you know, good books you have read, the Kung Fu Panda movie and your daughter’s birthday.
With each day it becomes more and more apparent that you have so little knowledge of the travel industry aside from what is fed to you from YTB.
I suspect that this debate will only be settled by time. Time will tell, but if I were to bet, it certainly would not be on YTB.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Or maybe I can show how blind some of our critics are who do nothing but post, acting like they know all there is about everything under the sun.
It was you who couldn’t find and travel related companies who showed the type of losses YTB has. Want me to bring up Cruise Value Center too? The internet is all a buzz how this company left both employees and clients hanging.
And for the record, YTB may know about both Liberty and CVC, but it came from me, not the other way around.
Oh, and I tell you what. I’ll go out and spend $350 to file a $100 million lawsuit claiming that John Frenaye is a scam. I’ve got plenty of documentation on that blog of yours to document what I believe to be true.
Does that make YOU a scam because I say so and have a suit of $100 million to back it up?
Let the legal process do it’s job. I just hope you’re prepared that this whole thing comes up a dud.
November 19th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Are you saying that YTB would have had no knowledge of CVC or Liberty if it weren’t for you? I hope that is just your ego speaking Doug because I would hate to think that they are THAT out of touch.
I have never said YTB was alone in the loss department. Certainly their losses have been impacted by poor management decisions. Their viability has also been impacted by these same decisions. Had YTB decided to play by the rules, they would not be being sued by Jerry Brown, under investigation by Lisa Madigan, and also Louisiana and Florida. There are many host agencies in California that are operating within the laws and guidelines set by the state. YTB chose to ignore them and now you are seeing the ramifications.
The class action suits will be or won’t be. But their mere presence is not a good sign. I know you all feel like it is a badge of honor to have been sued and be on the first name basis with the Constable that routinely serves legal papers on YTB. Bravo for you, but to be honest, most companies do not share your vision of achievement.
On the class action suits, if the plaintiffs can prove that YTB fed them false promises and used deceptive sales practices, then there is a good chance they will prevail to some extent–I doubt the full $100M, but to a certain extent. And we all know about the deceptive pitches–we have all heard them, witnessed them and the promises of riches made are rarely ever realized. Hopefully, for YTB’s sake they can convince a judge that they had nothing to do with it. But I suspect the videos of Ricketts and Jensen will not help the case.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Personally, I’ll let the courts decide any if there was any wrong doing.
I’m sorry John, but listening to you has proven time and time again to be not only unreliable but nothing short of simple fear mongering.
Have a good night.
PS – I wanted to thank you for something however. I won the bet I had with a few of my colleagues that YOU would be the one to make the 10,000 post on Scam.com. Knowing how much time you spend on line posting, it was a sure bet!
Whoo Hooo!